Francis: Interview #2 UPDATED with CORRECTION

Two interviews in barely two weeks! Francis is taking every opportunity to engage in conversation. Here is the interview he granted Eugenio Scalfari, an Italian journalist, in the same setting as the three day interview with his fellow Jesuit, Antonio Spadaro. I find it amusing that the Pope, who makes good use of his own cell phone, called to offer Scalfari an appointment, but had to wait to be "put through" to the journalist by the newspaper man's nervous secretary.

There are things in that conversation that will raise questions; I've only scanned the interview and found two eyebrow-raisers. A bit of research into the Italian original showed me that both are translation issues [really only one]. And serious ones, to my mind. (What? Did they use Google Translate?) So I am going to just hurry to post the differences between the English as published, and my own rather literal Italian.

If "everyone has his own idea of good and evil and must choose to follow the good and fight evil as he conceives them," is the Pope saying that there is no such thing as objective truth, or objective right or wrong?

This is where it is really, really helpful to know Italian: "Ciascuno di noi ha una sua visione del Bene e anche del Male. Noi dobbiamo incitarlo a procedere verso quello che lui pensa sia il Bene" is more literally (and helpfully?) translated as "Each one of us has his/her own vision of the Good or even of Evil. We must encourage him/her to move toward that which he/she sees as the Good." The Pope is not leveling the difference between truth and untruth, right and wrong: he is saying that we all have a duty to encourage people to pursue the Good, knowing that the true Good will not fail to manifest himself, even if "through a glass darkly." 

CORRECTION: Really, I must apologize right now, even though it is getting late (8:25 Central Time). The Pope made his point about conscience twice. The sentences I cited in Italian, believing these to be the original and only text, came first; these are accurately translated, even if the philosophical uppercase (Good and Evil) in the Italian was lost in the first sentence. The phrase about choosing "to follow the good and fight evil" as one conceives these was the Pope's follow-up statement. Again, rendered accurately enough. In these sentences, the fault was with my own all too rapid reading which conflated the two. 

What the Pope is doing is expressing the fully Catholic conviction of the primacy of conscience. Our challenge, he then explains, is "to identify the material and immaterial needs of people and try to meet them." At times, maybe a lot of times, this means not stopping at the words people use to express their needs, but perceiving the deeper, but unexpressed need. The woman who "needs" an abortion probably really needs a faithful husband; a supportive community; any number of material and immaterial goods. Her uninformed conscience might not take her that far; as Catholics we owe it to her to help her move toward the genuine stability and security she "sees as the Good." 

Me, tearing my hair out at the unreliable translation.

Here's another whopper: This next passage really does contain a translation error:
"The Son of God became incarnate in the souls of men to instill the feeling of brotherhood." Um, the Son of God did not become incarnate in souls. He became incarnate in human nature, in his own human flesh and blood. The Italian is " Il Figlio di Dio si è incarnato per infondere nell’anima degli uomini il sentimento della fratellanza": "The Son of God became incarnate to infuse into the soul of men [could say "the human soul"] the feeling of brotherhood."

Take the rest of the interview with a grain of salt--and with the Catechism at hand, knowing--as Pope Francis told Father Spadaro-- that he is a "son of the Church" and that everything he says should be interpreted in the light of Church teachings. I am sure that other commenters will be providing more of a blow-by-blow, but I wanted to get this out fast.

Read Italian? Here's the original.




Other links:

Interview of Pope Francis by Antonio Spadaro, SJ (updated translation from America Magazine)

Pope Francis School of Life (newsletter)

Related books, media:
Light of Faith (Pope Francis' first encyclical)

10 Things Pope Francis Wants You to Know (booklet by John Allen)

Jorge from Argentina: The Story of Pope Francis for Children