tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8950714.post8869796916261218420..comments2024-02-15T17:38:13.412-06:00Comments on nunblog: Roman Missal: In other wordsSister Annehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04032465016160490375noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8950714.post-74066261733711054732011-04-15T13:37:46.086-05:002011-04-15T13:37:46.086-05:00Awesome.
Thanks, Sr. Anne. That is wonderful to ...Awesome.<br /><br />Thanks, Sr. Anne. That is wonderful to hear. Why would anyone complain about that beautiful and faithful translation?<br /><br />Interestingly, the Latin text (and now the English translation) anticipates the consecration of the gifts, which of course has not yet occurred when the Te Igitur is prayed. The same is true of the Offertory in the 1962 Missal of Bl. John XXIII, which is unfortunately omitted in the Missal of Paul VI -- and still remains so, I assume, in the revised Missal.<br /><br />The important thing here is that the essential structure and meaning of the Mass as the propitiatory Sacrifice of Jesus Christ is being recovered, brick by brick. <br /><br />DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8950714.post-26098086745630160462011-04-15T12:54:31.893-05:002011-04-15T12:54:31.893-05:00According to the version I have (2008 study draft ...According to the version I have (2008 study draft printed by the Archdiocese of Atlanta), the Roman Canon begins:<br />To you, therefore, most merciful Father,<br />we make humble prayer and petition<br />through Jesus Christ, your Son, our Lord:<br />that you accept<br />and bless these gifts, these offerings,<br />these holy and unblemished sacrifices.Sister Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032465016160490375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8950714.post-35255490333899741512011-04-14T23:37:28.297-05:002011-04-14T23:37:28.297-05:00Te igitur, clementissime Pater, per Iesum Christum...<i>Te igitur, clementissime Pater, per Iesum Christum, Filium tuum, Dominum nostrum, supplices rogamus ac petimus, uti accepta habeas et benedicas <b>haec dona, haec munera, haec sancta sacrificia illibata</b> ...</i><br /><br />How is "these gifts we offer you in sacrifice" (1970 Missal) a faithful translation of "haec dona, haec munera, haec sancta sacrificia illibata"?<br /><br />A more faithful translation, it seems, would be:<br /><br /><i>Therefore, most gracious Father, we humbly beg of Thee and entreat Thee, through Jesus Christ, Thy Son, our Lord, to deem acceptable and bless, <b>these gifts, these offerings, these holy and unspotted oblations</b>.</i><br /><br />Do we know how the Te Igitur will be translated in the new missal?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8950714.post-77254358037769016392011-04-14T11:53:15.433-05:002011-04-14T11:53:15.433-05:00Fr. Ruff, can you please supply a few examples in ...Fr. Ruff, can you please supply a few examples in support of your contention that the ICEL translation is more faithful than the new translation?<br /><br />I'm neither a liturgist nor a Latinist, just a guy in the pews who is tired of the banality of post-Conciliar worship.<br /><br />DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8950714.post-27335094642622891122011-04-14T11:47:19.018-05:002011-04-14T11:47:19.018-05:00I so appreciate this conversation. No matter what,...I so appreciate this conversation. No matter what, it is a real opportunity for much needed catechesis on the little understood and GREAT treasure of the ChurchemeLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00244556602463784631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8950714.post-67356902901306261492011-04-14T11:33:46.734-05:002011-04-14T11:33:46.734-05:00By the way, Father Ruff, have we ever really engag...By the way, Father Ruff, have we ever really engaged with the Anglicans on the issue of liturgical translation? Or is it a totally moot point?Sister Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032465016160490375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8950714.post-30519430937862802372011-04-14T11:23:32.859-05:002011-04-14T11:23:32.859-05:00Thanks so much for weighing in, Father, as someone...Thanks so much for weighing in, Father, as someone who worked closely on this project.Sister Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032465016160490375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8950714.post-51552807665372022772011-04-14T09:47:33.990-05:002011-04-14T09:47:33.990-05:00Actually one of the biggest criticisms of the new ...Actually one of the biggest criticisms of the new translation - e.g. by Xavier Rindfleisch at www.praytellblog.com - is that it is NOT as faithful to the Latin as was the text ICEL prepared and the bishops approved. Someone in the Vatican or at Vox Clara made over 10,000 changes, many of them clear mistranslations of the Latin.<br /><br />The other problem is that the translation theory in "Liturgiam authenticam" (2001) simply doesn't work. By following Latin syntax - which works in Latin but not in English - the awkwardness obscures the meaning and, ironically, makes the English less faithful to the Latin.<br /><br />Fr. Anthony Ruff, OSBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8950714.post-57455484461163876592011-04-14T09:20:26.195-05:002011-04-14T09:20:26.195-05:00For those of us who yearn for a return to reverenc...For those of us who yearn for a return to reverence and holy awe in the Mass, and who have felt driven to seek outside the "mainstream" Church for alternatives to the banality of the post-Conciliar liturgy, these changes are most welcomed. I must confess that it is difficult for me to empathize with those Catholics who actually <i>like</i> the quasi-Protestant atmosphere that has crept into the Mass during the past 40 years. Yet empathize I must, for, as you have noted, an important goal of the new translation is to more closely unite us all as a universal Church.<br /><br />DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com